Interview with Bob McGinn, author of The Ultimate Super Bowl Book: A Complete Reference to the Stats, Stars, and Stories behind Football's Biggest Game - and Why the Best Team Won.

Recently, we sat down with Bob McGinn to discuss his new book. McGinn has covered the Green Bay Packers since the late 1970s as well as 24 Super Bowls. Renowned for his analytical approach to sports journalism, McGinn provides analysis and detailed accounts of what has become the world’s premier sporting event. The book includes little-known stories about the games, tables of statistical information for each game, more than 25 lists ranking a variety of categories, and more. Based on interviews with more than 150 NFL head coaches, coordinators, assistant coaches, players and personnel, The Ultimate Super Bowl Book is an incredible resource.

Here are some highlights:

MVP Books: Bob, congratulations on an excellent book. It’s an achievement. What was your goal and the process in writing it?

Bob McGinn: Thank you. I began each chapter trying to answer one central question: Why each Super Bowl game was won. If I could answer that, everything else would fall into place. I was most interested in tactics and level of performance, both by individual players and complete units. Before the interviews, I watched as much tape as I had available. After that, I was able to ask the participants about plays and strategy with a degree of understanding.

MVP Books: One of the things we loved about the essays you've written on each Super Bowl game is the number of quotes from legendary head coaches and players, but also those from the coordinators, assistant coaches, and perhaps a tier of lesser-known players and scouts. Can you tell us about the interviews and research you conducted for the book? Who were some of your favorite interviewees? 

Bob McGinn: I must say that doing this book was an education unto itself for me. So many people gave me so much of their time explaining not only what happened, but also why things happened. I learned a lot about pro football in the process, and in turn tried to pass along what the experts told me to readers of the book. I interviewed many coaches and general managers who had been in multiple Super Bowls. I relied on them to separate the finest teams and the finest performances. I spent almost as much time interviewing people from the losing team as I did from the winning team. It wouldn’t be fair for me to single out my favorite interviews. Suffice it to say that almost everyone tried to be as honest and illuminating as possible.

MVP Books: The parade of great football innovations that you chronicle is astonishing –the “53” defense of Bill Arnsparger in Miami, Tom Landry's Flex Defense in Dallas, the Stunt 4-3 of George Perles and the Steelers, Bud Carson’s Cover 2 scheme in Pittsburgh and Los Angeles, the “Explode” package of Joe Gibbs, Buddy Ryan's “46” Defense in Chicago, the ascendancy of Bill Walsh's West Coast offense in San Francisco, Bill Belichick's game plans with the Giants and Patriots, and many others. It's like reading football history within the framework of the last game of each season. Not only did many of these great coaches change the nature of how the game is played, many cooked up innovative plays and plans for their Super Bowl opponent that they shared with you. Which do you think is the greatest innovation to the game that these coaches created? Did you have any favorites among the game plans you wrote about?

Bob McGinn: Certainly being able to analyze and recount the Patriots’ upset of the Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI was fascinating. Listening to Belichick set forth his defensive priorities against “The Greatest Show on Turf” was remarkable. So were the remarks of Rob Ryan, one of Belichick’s defensive assistants. The interviews with Arnsparger, Perles, Carson, Ryan, and Walsh should provide football historians with an overview of their defensive schemes, which in some cases would remain effective for years to come. Not only did Walsh’s version of the ball-control passing game help the 49ers win five Super Bowls and send him to the Hall of Fame, but it was this system of football that assistant coaches such as Mike Holmgren used to win Super Bowls. That probably was Walsh’s most lasting legacy.

MVP Books: Bob, one thing that really surprised us is the intensity of these interviews. Many times, decades after the game was played, we could still feel the lasting sting of a disputed penalty, a missed interception, or a disappointing performance during the game. Conversely, we could hear the glory of vindication and victory after long careers, the sweetness of revenge, the arrival of players to stardom, etc. Years later, could you hear that when you were talking to all those players and coaches? What was that like? 

Bob McGinn: This was the wonderful part of the book. Many people didn’t pull any punches. I can still hear the Raiders’ Charlie Sumner talking about getting hammered in Super Bowl II by the Packers before gaining a measure of retribution in Super Bowl XVIII against the Redskins. The same could be said for Tom Bettis, who lived through the pain of Super Bowl I with the Chiefs only to help turn the tables for Kansas City and the entire AFL in Super Bowl IV. It’s hard to forget the disappointment even today when former Vikings Jeff Siemon and Jerry Reichow think back to their multiple defeats. You remember Larry Peccatiello talking about Super Bowl XVIII – he and his fellow defensive coach Richie Petitbon were so disgusted after being pounded by the Raiders that they walked several miles back to the Redskins’ team hotel in Tampa. That happened to be the first Super Bowl I was assigned to cover. I’ll never forget Al Davis working his team’s tiny, sweaty locker room underneath a corner of Tampa Stadium telling everyone that this was one of the greatest teams in history and the Raiders were headed for years of prosperity. The Super Bowl defined many careers. It was a memorable experience, listening to the participants discuss how it came about.

MVP Books: One of the features of the book is the tables in each chapter that list individual and team statistics, coaches, game-day information, and more. In fact, the book includes the first compilation of defensive statistics for the Super Bowl. The NFL only started counting sacks in 1982. Can you tell us about how you researched all of this, especially for the older games? 

Bob McGinn: We definitely wanted the names of every assistant coach to be included in the book. In some ways, they are the anonymous foot soldiers in the NFL. For this book, they moved front and center. We also included the jersey numbers of every player. Now, when those Super Bowl highlights roll on television, you’ll have a reference to identify the players. The Hall of Fame in Canton provided copies of the original play-by-plays from the first few games, which are difficult to obtain. We wanted to include individual tackles and sacks. Even in the first few Super Bowls, tackles were listed by players. Sacks, however, were a different story. Various people looked at film of the early games to determine sacks for us. The second Super Bowl was another story. Neither the Packers nor the Raiders have a film of the game, and NFL Films doesn’t, either. So for Super Bowl II we relied on the play-by-play to assign individual sacks.

MVP Books: In a recent chat online for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel you provided what we thought was a great glimpse into your approach covering the game. A reader asked who you considered to be an elite running back, and you wrote: “An elite running back averages at least 4.7 yards per carry and has 12 or more 20+ yard runs per season.” That’s much different than something like, “An elite back is the guy who can grind out the clock when the game is on the line,” if you know what we mean. The Ultimate Super Bowl Book is filled with this kind of revealing data within the stories - how much certain coverages were run by a team during the season, percentages, tendencies, etc. Did this come naturally to you when you started covering football? We see other media outlets today using football metrics you created as far back as 20 years ago. Was it your intention to write about the game with information like that when you started out? 

Bob McGinn: After a few years on the beat I came up with ideas of what might be important in the winning equation for teams and what might assist readers formulate their opinions of the Packers. By the mid-1980s I was taping every Packers game and spending hours breaking it down the day after. In 1986, I began recording dropped passes. In 1987, I began recording individual penalties. In 1990, I began recording knockdowns, or pass plays excluding sacks in which the quarterback ended up on the ground. In 1991, I began keeping targeted passes for receivers. In 1992, I began recording yards after the catch on every reception for Green Bay. In 1994, I started keeping hang times on punts and kickoffs. A year or two later, I began counting the number of steps or pocket action for all of Brett Favre’s pass attempts. At about the same time I began counting the number of rushers by the Packers and their opponents on every dropback. In 1998, I began recording about 12 different categories on every interception thrown by Green Bay. In 1999, I began counting snaps for defensive linemen, the same year I expanded pass-rushing statistics to include hurries for both the Packers and their opponents. In 1994, I began assigning responsibility for every run and pass of 20 yards or more against Green Bay. A few years later I began assigning blame for every sack and knockdown against Green Bay. In 1995, I began recording the times of sacks for and against the Packers. Starting in 2000, I began charting Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, who was Green Bay’s best pass rusher for almost a decade. I have the victim, if there was one, and the time for each of his sacks as well as how many blockers he faced on each rush. In 2002, I created a statistic called “bad runs,” defined as runs for 1 yard or less in non-goal-line or short-yardage situations, and assigned responsibility for each. A few years ago, I expanded snaps counts to include running backs and tight ends, among other positions. About a decade ago I started counting missed tackles on defense and special teams. The only reason I had so much time to devote to these endeavors was the tremendous work of my colleagues on the beat, especially Tom Silverstein. Depending on availability of tape, I recorded many of these statistics in Super Bowl games and presented them in the text. All of the above statistics were designed to give readers more of a quantitative approach to evaluate coaches, players, and teams. None of my record-keeping should be considered official. However, I have tried diligently to remain consistent over the years, and experts affiliated with the teams involved have assisted me as well.

MVP Books: Bob, in the essays on the games you summarize each team's season as well as the Super Bowl itself. Personnel and coaching changes, critical injuries, red-letter moments and games, the playoff road to the Super Bowl - all of that and more is included in each chapter. Did you detect common reasons why certain teams won, other than the analytical side, e.g. they could run the ball and stop the run? Why do certain organizations end up being Super Bowl dynasties and others have never won the big game?

Bob McGinn: I can remember covering the Super Bowl in the 1980s when the Packers were in the throes of their 25-year malaise. Invariably, I’d end up asking participants from the two teams how they reached the Super Bowl. Until Bob Harlan, Ron Wolf, and Mike Holmgren took over in Green Bay in the early 1990s, I really had no idea how a winning organization operated. I tried to give readers a glimpse into how the Super Bowl teams were built in the essays on the game because I think team-building is the key to the whole thing. Above all else, you need a quarterback. Then you need a defense. After that, you can’t afford to have any weak starters. They can undermine an entire platoon, if not an entire team. And the coaching and personnel departments have to respect one another. The Detroit Lions, for example, have not even contended for a Super Bowl largely because of ownership. With almost no exception, the teams with two or more victories in the Super Bowl have had outstanding ownership. 

MVP Books: Bob, thank you for your time today. We're going to go ahead and say flat out that if you consider yourself a true NFL football fan, then you're going to love this book and you're going to need it on your bookshelf this season.

And if you're in the Green Bay area, Bob will be signing this book at 7 PM on Friday, December 11 at the Barnes & Noble 2498 Oneida Street store.

Interview with Bob McGinn, sportswriter and author of The Ultimate Super Bowl Book(MVP Books, November 2009)